Gambling IQ Commentary On the Bodog Fiasco

**The General** · 09-22-2008 10:45 AM

In talking with my son at Vincennes Univ. he stated many of the kids down there he has talked with like to play at Bodog, esp poker, but I let him know to spread the word about the situation at hand.

**Dirty** · 09-24-2008 12:40 AM

Bump

**Brunhuber** · 09-24-2008 03:18 AM

Wise Guy
EOG Senior Member

Re: Shrink YES OR NO have you considered removing the BODOG banner on a temporary basis?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucky

...guess it would be interesting to know their sad story on how they managed to go dead ass broke.

I wonder whether Calvin launching into a dozen different unfamiliar businesses had any impact on the bottom line? Bodog pretends that they are a world-wide entertainment giant, but I suspect many of their non-core businesses have not been profitable.

Wise-Guy is a little behind the times. BoDogFight, BoDog Music, BoDog TV and any other biz-farts Calvin had going went tits up over six months ago.

It appears to me that Bodog long-ago took the corporate attitude that anyone who takes a payout deserves no respect and is a "bad" customer. In other words, a good customer is someone who plays and plays until all the money is gone. A "bad" customer actually tries to win and then (heavens to betsy) dares to request a payout.

This Wise- guy is a wise guy!

Well, these morons at Bodog forgot that Poker is a different animal. Poker players who request a payout did not win that money from the casino. So, guess what is happening now: Bodog is losing poker players at an accelerating rate. The word is getting around that it is next to impossible to get any cash out of Bodog. Poker players have lots of other options.

Check their rank. Bodog has slipped to around # 14 in the online poker world and Bodog continues to fall fast. Another year and they will fall completely off the poker radar.

A year from now? They could be gone by Xmas!

More from Wise-Guy.

Lately, it seems to me that every move that Bodog makes is a mistake. I can't imagine how they expect to survive long-term in this business. Sure, Bodog makes a bunch of empty promises to new customers, but once an account holder gets a taste of how many months are required to receive a payout, Bodog has lost that customer forever.

I think that when the 60 Minutes piece comes out on the UltimateBet and Absolute Poker cheating comes out, the damage from that will have a ripple effect on sites like BoDog. Meaning thousands less players for everyone.

I've never seen such negative stuff on the forums, over such a long period of time, as I have with BoDog.

It really has been one calamity after another, most of which G IQ has detailed at the top of the page.

Unbelievable!

If you want this thread bumped from time to time, Dirty, I can always find something of interest!

I'm always on the look-out!

**Dirty** · 09-24-2008 06:53 AM

That would be great Brun... I need to write a follow up piece, but there is just so damn much and it would be everywhere at the moment...best thing is to just keep this one bumped up I guess

**Dirty** · 09-24-2008 02:47 PM

From SBR...they are making Progress

09-02-2008, 05:19 PM	#103 (permalink)
JoshW Moderator Join Date: 08-10-05 Posts: 2,570	All the player complaints we have been getting have been getting quick responses from Bodog. Most people have been paid or have firm tracking numbers. Anyone who is having issues with bodog or having trouble getting paid, please submit a complaint request to us here: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Spor...Complaint.aspx If you have submitted an issue to us on bodog and haven't heard back email me at josh@sportsbookreview.com. I had my computer crash this weekend, so is possible one or two emails could have been lost.
JoshW's SBR

Bodog: The End of an Era - Page 3 - Sports Handicapping - Sports Betting - Sports Picks - SBR Forum

**The General** · 09-24-2008 02:52 PM

We have to hope for the best with Bodog because it would be a huge detriment to the entire on line gaming world should they become the next BOS. I hope they are somehow able to get this train wreck awaiting repaired for lack of better term. We have witnessed that the US Govt does not give a chit about the players and will take down this business and harm 1000's of their own people if they can.

**Dirty** · 09-24-2008 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(Peep @ Sep 24 2008, 02:40 PM)

I trust JoshW at SBR, I have worked with him and been in contact with him for years.

He used to post as Lakerfan.

If he says he can get people paid, I believe him.

We all know Calvin is a crook and full of it, but that is no reason not to help players get paid.

It isn't just Ayre who is the crook. The whole management culture is one of sleaze!

http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/wor....html&st=90

Peter Karroll, Jim Phillips, Arron Gould, lawyer Bryce and even Peter's daughter Riley are seedy characters....crooks.... I'll save the expletives since everyone else has done a good enough job with that. Plus, these people make themselves look bad on a daily basis just fine. Anyone doing business with these people should know they do not honor contracts and if they do pay up it is like pulling teeth. I have personally seen them hire developers to create their entire back end software to run one of their sites and then turn around and screw them out of tens of thousands of dollars in pay.
--------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure JoshW is a good man.

Who benefits the most by having JoshW report that one person has been paid?

**Wise Guy** · 09-25-2008 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Brunhuber

This Wise- guy is a wise guy!

Thanx Brunhuber. I’m glad you liked my post. In their defense, EOG has allowed the many negative posts about Bodog to remain available for reading in the EOG forums. So props to The Shrink.

For those who dispair of ever getting their money from Bodog, there is a glimmer of hope, although the light gets dimmer with each passing month. I have been attempting to get my funds out of Bodog for a long time, and I was receiving payments from time to time in 2007 and early 2008. In April 2008, I requested (and was approved for) my last payout (an amount under $3,000) from Bodog. And I just received that cheque via Fed Ex. So, the actual time required to receive a payout from Bodog is now 5 calendar months (April to September in my case).

Do not for one minute believe the bs that Bodog will try to feed you about 40 business days. That is just silly. Nobody gets a cheque payout from Bodog in 40 business days in the Autumn of 2008. For all of you who are lurking in the GIQ forums and have money at Bodog, begin to demand your money now. You do not want to get caught up in the mad dash for the exits after Superbowl. If Bodog is still in business in March 2009, you can expect to wait a minimum of 6 calendar months for your money.

To all lurkers, be aware that Dirty and the General are telling you the absolute truth. We all hope that Bodog gets rid of its present management, consolidates operations in either Antigua or Costa Rica and gets their act together, but don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. There are lots of good books out there that will not slow pay you and stiff you. Just click on "sportsbooks" at the top of the home page at GIQ for more information.

I am a real person. I am a real gambler. And I have bookmaking experience in Las Vegas. I have no ax to grind. I am simply telling you that Bodog is (at present) one huge mess that you want no association with.

P.S.: I hope the cheque doesn't bounce because I already sent that money to Pinnacle.

**Dirty** · 09-25-2008 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Wise Guy

Thanx Brunhuber. I’m glad you liked my post. In their defense, EOG has allowed the many negative posts about Bodog to remain available for reading in the EOG forums. So props to The Shrink.

For those who dispair of ever getting their money from Bodog, there is a glimmer of hope, although the light gets dimmer with each passing month. I have been attempting to get my funds out of Bodog for a long time, and I was receiving payments from time to time in 2007 and early 2008. In April 2008, I requested (and was approved for) my last payout (an amount under $3,000) from Bodog. And I just received that cheque via Fed Ex. So, the actual time required to receive a payout from Bodog is now 5 calendar months (April to September in my case).

Do not for one minute believe the bs that Bodog will try to feed you about 40 business days. That is just silly. Nobody gets a cheque payout from Bodog in 40 business days in the Autumn of 2008. For all of you who are lurking in the GIQ forums and have money at Bodog, begin to demand your money now. You do not want to get caught up in the mad dash for the exits after Superbowl. If Bodog is still in business in March 2009, you can expect to wait a minimum of 6 calendar months for your money.

To all lurkers, be aware that Dirty and the General are telling you the absolute truth. We all hope that Bodog gets rid of its present management, consolidates operations in either Antigua or Costa Rica and gets their act together, but don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. There are lots of good books out there that will not slow pay you and stiff you. Just click on "sportsbooks" at the top of the home page at GIQ for more information.

I am a real person. I am a real gambler. And I have bookmaking experience in Las Vegas. I have no ax to grind. I am simply telling you that Bodog is (at present) one huge mess that you want no association with.

P.S.: I hope the cheque doesn't bounce because I already sent that money to Pinnacle.

Thanks for the kind words Bud... and I am so glad you finally got your money... Great post and thank you for it.

**Dirty** · 09-25-2008 03:44 PM

I would like to add to my other post...

I wish the hell this whole thread was not true..... makes me sick to think about it....

On our Sportsbooks here ... you will not find a Book Rated under a B on the Ratings at Sportsbook Review except for One.

They are Heroes sportsbook and they are brand new, but their Casino is A Rated at Several Respected places and after their book is open a while they will be as well.

They are ran by people who Used to be owners at Oasis Casino and have very deep pockets. Oasis is one of the Most Well funded places and highly respected in the Industry

**Brunhuber** · 09-26-2008 01:18 AM

09-23-2008, 08:25 AM

#7 (permalink)

manly
Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 122

been waiting as well. first check from them paying bank wouldn't accept. they're sending me another ASAP.

BODOG PAYOUT SCAM - TOW online sports betting and gambling forum

Boy, I'll tell ya! This real Brunhuber really schooled Ol' Cal in con-manship!

Here's a story about a guy named Erich Brunnhuber. A guy fresh out of the pen who met Calvin Ayre and schooled him in "pump and dumps' and all around conning!

Gambling IQ readers should know that Calvin Ayre, BoDog's CEO, has sent goons around to two of his most vocal critics and has threatened harm to their families if they don't shut up!

Please don't bet with BoDog!

Vancouver's other billionaire

Calvin Ayre: King of Internet gambling won't set foot in U.S.

David Baines, Vancouver Sun

Published: Friday, September 22, 2006
In 1989, while Patrick Roberts (the drug pilot) was serving time at the minimum security prison in Ferndale, he met another prisoner named named Erich Brunnhuber.
Five years earlier, Brunnhuber and his partner, Bert Roosen, had used manipulative trades and false news releases to pyramid the share prices of six Vancouver Stock Exchange companies to artificially high levels.
On Oct. 19, 1984 -- a day that would be forever known in VSE history as Black Friday -- the stocks crashed in tandem, exposing not only the fraud, but also the VSE's supervisory neglect.
Brunnhuber and Roosen were charged and, after a well publicized trial, convicted of fraud. In January 1987, they were each sentenced to seven years in jail, one of the harshest sentences in Canadian stock market history.
In 1989, Brunnhuber and Roberts met each other at the Ferndale facility and continued their relationship after they were were both paroled in 1990.
Shortly after his release, Roberts introduced Ayre to a VSE company called Bicer Medical Systems. Ayre, who had just obtained his MBA from City University in Seattle, was appointed Bicer's president.
Roberts also introduced Ayre to Brunnhuber. Notwithstanding Brunnhuber's serious criminal record, Ayre hired him as Bicer's marketing director.
In August 1990, VSE officials learned that Brunnhuber, a convicted stock felon, was involved in Bicer's affairs. Under pressure, Ayre signed an undertaking to sever all dealings with him.
However, a year later -- with Ayre still running the company -- VSE officials discovered that Brunnhuber was still involved. Trading was halted and the company disappeared.
The B.C. Securities Commission launched an investigation and found a web of stock violations. In September 1996, Ayre settled the matter by admitting he had:
- Breached his undertaking not to deal with Brunnhuber.
- Misrepresented various aspects of the company's affairs.
- Caused Bicer to issue hundreds of thousands of shares to him, or a nominee, without paying for them first.
- Traded millions of shares without disclosing those trades on insider reports.
- Ignored a summons issued by commission investigators, and then lied to investigators.
For these offences, he agreed not to trade stock, or serve as an officer or director, or act in an investor relations capacity for any B.C. public company for 20 years. He also agreed to pay a $10,000 penalty.
In recent interviews, Ayre has provided an array of responses to reporters who have asked about this matter.
He told the Globe and Mail that he was young and naive: "It's the first thing I did out of university. I had no idea what was going on."
He told Forbes he knew what he was doing, but he did it to save the company: "I knew that I wasn't following all the rules. But I also knew I had to do it to keep the budget alive."
He told The Vancouver Sun there were no victims: "I clearly made some mistakes, but it was not a criminal issue and nobody got hurt from anything I did."
************************************

Nobody got hurt. Ol' Cal likes to say that he spent his last ten thousand to start BoDog.

Me, I prefer the truth. Ol' Cal spent the last ten thou of hundreds, possibly thousands of investors who he tricked into investing with him.

Ayre, back when he was, "really rolling" considered this an inside joke, that he had spent his last ten thou, saved up while learning the value of hard work, and, get this, humility, while selling fruit from the back of a truck while travelling across the Canadian prairies!

The investors? In Bicer Medical. Kazootek. CyberRoad. A long list of shell companies.
Some of them were family friends who he has not paid back to this day.

Billionaire, eh? Eh?

I could show G IQ readers ten stories like the Vancouver Sun article.

Don't get me started. I'll only do it if Dirty doesn't tell me to fuck off. Or if Ayre's cronies bump me off! If that happens, he's dead too!

Stay away from BoDog, and please spread the word!

**Dirty** · 09-26-2008 07:01 AM

Somebody needs to tell the posters at TOW to please read somewhere that is not protecting the people pulling the shenanigans at Bodog. That place is a sinking ship.

Brunhuber as long as the attacks are not personal and you post factual information with the proper proof nothing will ever be said about it.

We just will not put up with the He/said she said BS..but what you have been posting is fine IMO.

**Dirty** · 09-26-2008 01:26 PM

pier0 at OGD

It will be interesting to see what kind of presence Bodog will have this year at CAP Euro (later this week in Barcelona). They generally have the biggest booth and throw the nicest parties, but I haven't heard anything from them so far this year.

They didn't have a booth or any kind of presence at the show. As a matter of fact two of their former affiliate managers that were generally representating the company at the European shows were in Barcelona today, but without a job.

From what I've heard in the last few days Malta and the UK said no to Bodog (again), so I guess their move to Europe doesn't look too good.

Gambling IQ Commentary On the Bodog Fiasco - OGD

**Brunhuber** · 09-26-2008 09:26 PM

Bodog Poker Open II Starts Sunday as Customers Wait Months to be Paid

Submitted by Payton on Thu, 09/25/2008 - 23:10.

Go to most online poker and sports betting forums, chances are you will find tons of threads discussing how people have been waiting months to get paid by Bodog.
Yet Bodog, once a superior online gambling website well represented on Gambling911.com, has started to promote its Bodog Poker Open II and how some lucky players can win a $30,000-guaranteed at this no-limit hold'em event.
While a number of online gambling websites have had well publicized processing issues, Bodog has had a significant amount of its funds seized by the US Government. They have also routinely lied to vendors and affiliates alike regarding their cash flow issues.
Fortunately there are new processing companies coming onto the scene who have chosen to conduct business with only a select few companies. Unfortunately for Bodog, they are not one of the select few as they have been deemed "untrustworthy" in recent months.
Bodog does have a new deposit method they are pushing. They just can't pay out using the same method. Hence, the reason many affiliates are now reporting 50 percent conversion rates this month. The problem is, these customers may not keep playing.
Microgaming recently passed Bodog in the rankings of "real cash" online poker rooms. Bodog continues to drop - now listed number 14 of poker players in the world and 7th of those that take US players.
-----
Payton O'Brien, Gambling911.com Senior Editor

**Dirty** · 09-26-2008 09:28 PM

Amazing anyone would send money to play Poker there with Fulltilt, PokerStars, Party Poker, Doyles room, et al... all having Tournaments with higher payouts and they don't have the feds breathing down their necks.....

I used to get 1-2 emails a month from Bodog and now I get 3-4 a week :idk

**Wise Guy** · 09-27-2008 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dirty

Amazing anyone would send money to play Poker there with Fulltilt, PokerStars, Party Poker, Doyles room, et al... all having Tournaments with higher payouts and they don't have the feds breathing down their necks

I think that I have the answer to that question. Bodog is doing the same thing that many previous failing books engaged in. All sorts of marketing press releases are flooding out from Bodog. And lots of folks do not read posting forums, so when they hear about these super giveaways, they call Bodog and send their money off to Bodog.

I was listening to a very popular horse race show today in Las Vegas. One of the co-hosts mentioned a super duper freebee available from Bodog. Something that sounded almost too good to be true. So, instead of correcting their problems, Bodog is trying to bring in new money from folks who know nothing about other poker rooms, know nothing about posting forums, are new to the world of offshore betting, etc. (you get the idea).

I fired off a quick e-mail to the folks on this radio show and advised them that it would not be wise to ever mention Bodog because when Bodog fails, they don't want listeners associating the radio show with the permanent disappearance of all post-up funds.

**The General** · 09-27-2008 01:58 AM

Forum people (even occasional readers) know to be careful, but many sign-ups will come from INTERNET users just finding a nice banner and sign-up unknowing of the issues at hand. Younger, newer bettors in particular.

**Dirty** · 09-27-2008 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Wise Guy

I think that I have the answer to that question. Bodog is doing the same thing that many previous failing books engaged in. All sorts of marketing press releases are flooding out from Bodog. And lots of folks do not read posting forums, so when they hear about these super giveaways, they call Bodog and send their money off to Bodog.

I was listening to a very popular horse race show today in Las Vegas. One of the co-hosts mentioned a super duper freebee available from Bodog. Something that sounded almost too good to be true. So, instead of correcting their problems, Bodog is trying to bring in new money from folks who know nothing about other poker rooms, know nothing about posting forums, are new to the world of offshore betting, etc. (you get the idea).

I fired off a quick e-mail to the folks on this radio show and advised them that it would not be wise to ever mention Bodog because when Bodog fails, they don't want listeners associating the radio show with the permanent disappearance of all post-up funds.

You did your part Wise Guy

**Dirty** · 09-27-2008 10:51 PM

can't let this get too far down

**Dirty** · 09-30-2008 03:35 PM

BodogLife.com Complaints Mount: Slow Pays Continue

Submitted by C Costigan on Tue, 09/30/2008 - 10:35.

Customers are getting paid albeit slowly....very slowly. As Gambling911.com continues to report, BodogLife.com (Bodog) continues to suffer from processing woes that have hit the entire online gambling sector hard in recent years. But Bodog, which had a large chunk of its money seized by the Department of Justice this summer, has had an especially tough time of late.
"Processors won't go near Bodog," one industry source told Gambling911.
Much of the industry has been working with smaller processors who are taking on clients via a referral basis. Some are able to handle mid to large size operations. Bodog is considered a large operation by industry standards.
For its part, BodogLife.com has been able to find new outlets for deposit methods. Online gambling affiliates reported upwards of 50 percent conversion rates over the lsat month.
The problem: Retaining these customers. Bodog Poker, as an example, continues to lose market share. The industry's second largest online poker room, Full Tilt Poker, now has 10 times the number of active real cash players on average.
In recent months, Sports Book Review, has dropped its rating on Bodog from "A" to "C" and is said to be considering another downgrade.
"At this point Bodog is simply telling us that everyone is in line for payout and they will pay as fast as their processors can put out payments. Unless a player has made person to person transfers as the primary deposit method, and is a long time customer, p2p isn't being offered as a withdrawal payout," the website reports.Customers on that site have pointed to a method for receiving a more rapid payout, though they warn of steep fees associated with that option.
----
Christopher Costigan, Gambling911.com Publisher

BodogLife.com Complaints Mount: Slow Pays Continue | Gambling911.com

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